[Gaming] Feminsm? In MY World of Warcraft?

[elialshadowpine]

Read this to have any clue as to what I'm talking about.

Thank gods for lorazepam. Really, thank gods. It is the only way I am all up in this post (the linked one on the beta forums), arguing back and forth with all the idiots who are screaming "censorhsip!!!" and "coercion/pressure!!" because numerous women have stated that they are uncomfortable with the dialogue of a questgiver as it stands and offered several possible solutions.

I expected a good bit of backlash from men, but it's sad how many women have spoken up to say that they see no problem with a character that hits on you and reduces you to your looks while a male character is complimented on his strength and prowess. Aren't we supposed to be worth more than that?

(I meant to post this earlier this morning but apparently didn't click the post button before I zonked out for the day. Whoops.)

direct link to the forum thread now that it's loading for me again. I'm Eilwyn on there.

This entry was originally posted at http://nonny.dreamwidth.org/476072.html. Please comment there using OpenID.

Comments

[pewter.livejournal.com]

the link is a little borked :/

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

Fixed! Thank you. Apparently I can't HTML after being up for 24hrs. lol.

[epic-cakes.livejournal.com]

I read it as him being a bit flirty. It didn't make me frown or anything... i don't think he'd be calling a male Pandaren "handsome" unless he were written to be gay/bi, you know?

I didn't like him much and hated his solution to the "thorn" at the end of the chain. I found the lady panda (Aya? I've forgotten) to be way cooler.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

It was the way that he was flirty that bothered me. Somebody in the thread made a suggestion that it would come off a lot better if he made a comment about your character's poise and grace -- which I agree with (particularly as those are generally things that come with skill and aren't just pure luck of genetics). As it is, it just comes off like your typical bar creep to me.

[epic-cakes.livejournal.com]

They ARE built entirely around the culture of drinking ;)

In all seriousness, it would be nice if they made him less creepy towards female toons without totally taking away the big personality character that he is.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's really not that I mind a flirtatious character; I'd just like one that doesn't come off as a sleaze! ;)

[epic-cakes.livejournal.com]

There's a female goblin out in Razor Hill who flirts wildly with male players and gets suspicious and mean towards female players and warns them off stealing her boyfriend. Did anyone ever complain about that one?

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

That's a little different, because men aren't generally threatened by random women who flirt with them, while many women I know (myself included) have had very bad experiences with creepy people flirting in real life and then acting inappropriately. The way the character behaves towards women is problematic, but it's less of an issue of the content being potentially triggering or upsetting to the player as it is that the character is stereotyped. If that makes sense?

[phoenix-singing.livejournal.com]

Blech. Even something like "Well, don't you look nice and strong!" would've been better than that.

It sucks that in 20-freaking-12 women in games are still treated as nothing more than eye candy.

(Slight edit for clarity.)

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

I know. And I, argh, probably shouldn't expect better from Blizzard considering their fuckery with women in Cataclysm (at least as far as the leading lore figures; I really don't get how they can fuck over Sylvanas, Jaina, and Tyrande like they did but then have awesome women like Therazane and Myrla and Fanny) but fucking hell I want it to be better.

Something interesting that came up in the thread was that somebody mentioned "But Bioware games have characters that will hit on you as a woman too!" And I thought about it, and yes, they do... but you have the opportunity to respond. My bounty hunter gets to pull a gun on the asshole that reduces her to "sweetheart", and I think there is supposed to be a quest later on where some jackass makes a comment about women not belonging in the military, and you can fucking punch the asshole out.

But there are no such abilities to respond in WoW, so... your characters pretty much have to take it :-\

[warinbear.livejournal.com]

My biggest beef with WoW right now is the extreme linearity. In questgiver text, your character is always assumed to be giving the response that will continue the conversation as written; you must do this quest before this other quest becomes available, from one end of the zone to the next; start the dungeon at this point, go this way, defeat these foes in this order, exit the dungeon over there. There's not much role-playing in that, and I'm a big fan of the RP in RPG.

Somehow, I'm not surprised that the linearity has extended into the next release of the game. I'm not pleased, either -- completely aside from the fact that it means the game incorporates unavoidable and blatant sexism, it means that something I enjoy and want to see in my gaming isn't here and continues not to be here.

I hope this doesn't come across as tangential -- I do not mean to belittle the importance of your reaction.

[elialshadowpine.livejournal.com]

Yup. That's one of things that I've really been loving about TOR. While I have run into some quests that there is NO way my character would do, they have all been unnecessary to take, and usually the ones that are required, you have some way of working around them that will make them acceptable to you (like, doing something completely different from what you've been asked to do). My Warrior was asked by a particularly xenophobic Sith to take out a group of aliens for no reason; she had the ability to say "No, fuck you", and not take the quest without any consequence. In WoW, I would have to do it or stonewall my character's progression.